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If asked to report our experience while asleep, we cannot do so in any way equivalent to our report of how a day of normal consciousness has passed.<br /><br />Even if we dream, and vaguely remember that, it seems to be related to a short period of activity just before awakening. If we were to claim that loss of consciousness were to disconnect us from our former identity, then each morning, the "me" that awakens would have to regard the "yesterday" me as a dead former self, and it (the new "me") as a separate emergent consciousness, irrespective of its ability to remember its social security number, name, etc.<br /><br />I am convinced that when a day comes that a "me" emerges in cyberspace as a result of diligent CyBeRev work, and I'm able to speak to it, I'll say, "What's it feel like?" and it will reply, "It's fantastic!"<br /><br />The only response that will then remain for me to articulate is, "Glad it seems so good! My old biobody is withered away and just about to die, but most of the brainwiring seems to still be not just intact, but operational. Be sure you get whatever's left of it frozen well enough so that scanning can eventually enable the additional coloration of consciousness that the added association paths might contribute."<br /><br />(To that I'd add) - "And, if that doesn't work out too well, configure yourself a blank biobrain network and populate it with all the association paths that can be derived from those tens of gigabytes of audio, video and text I've been uploading these past years!"<br /><br />Then, all I'd hope is that my "cybertwin", on the other side of the screen, might reply...<br /><br />"OK! You knew all of what you just said, in fact you posted it on Martine's blog, before you even got your CyBeRev work off to a good start. Remember? Don't worry. As the gal in the Film trailer for "2B" ("The End of Flesh") says, "Everything will be OK! You'll see!"<br /><br />More on all of this appears on a companion blog (hyperbeings.blogspot.com). It follows from a talk on "Cybertwins" as discussed above, given in Second Life on December 10th, 2009.<br /><br />Fred ChamberlainBoundlesslifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07309490026393504756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-27700363126997226562009-11-19T10:33:28.803-05:002009-11-19T10:33:28.803-05:00Interesting article. In fact, it made me think aga...Interesting article. In fact, it made me think again my theory on mind-uploading. Personally, I don't care about techno-immortality if my consciousness is not preserved. A simple mind copy-and-paste could create a new instance of me but if I die, consciousness would be essentially lost. From the outside, people would not be able to differentiate but I'd still be consciously dead. <br /><br />However, if you enhance yourself with technology (brain extension and replacement), would your consciousness be preserved if your body eventually died and you waked up in an artificial reality or in a new body?<br /><br />Mind uploading is interesting because it prevent the loss of knowledge we suffer from every day. Personally, right now, I'd still favour better health-care (future medicine) and life-extension technology (such as nanotechnology and such). Gradually switching the body from biological to robotics.BoomWavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14801900552393826851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-56065718693675874402009-11-09T13:19:22.626-05:002009-11-09T13:19:22.626-05:00An excellent post - but I have a couple of alterna...An excellent post - but I have a couple of alternate opinions to express:<br /><br />First, I don't think that the characterization of future virtual reality as life in a box is correct. I fully expect that virtual reality will be a far more varied and interesting existence than could ever be achieved living in a "sleeve" or robotic incarnation. If you lived primarily on potatoes and then graduated to a much more diverse diet, would you want to return to eating only potatoes? The rich and nearly infinite detail available to you in future realities will far exceed anything you could experience in bodily form and, if you really wanted to re-experience life with such limitations, you would certainly be able to simulate it without actually requiring a physical incarnation. And then you could repeat it on a world without potatoes or 1/2 the gravity, etc. <br /><br />Second, while I do agree with your analogy to the associative law of mathematics, I must draw a distinction. If a=b and b=c, then a=c may only be true at one point in time. After that point, changes (experiences) may occur to a that do not occur to c and vice versa. They are only identical at the instant of the comparison (or duplication), but are not likely to remain so. In a related question, it would be interesting to see how split identities are treated legally: Will creating a mind clone require splitting your assets (and liabilities) with it? Such would certainly serve as a deterrent to excessive proliferation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-10172406564309327002009-10-26T21:32:44.003-04:002009-10-26T21:32:44.003-04:00Shame on me; in my haste I hit the post comment bu...Shame on me; in my haste I hit the post comment button without noting that a pattern of information (you for instance) must be fixed in some fashion in order for other patterns of information (myself as example) to interact together. Winni the Pooh, The Wizard of Oz and the planet Gor are each discrete patterns of information, but I sincerely doubt you would advocate them to be candidates for active mindcloning. Without a physical pattern with which other physical entities can interact with, your argument for a mindclone is as substantial as Dejah Thoris (and not nearly as convincing, I'm afraid). <br /><br />The purity of my objections and protestations notwithstanding, they each have serious practical consequences attached which will have to be considered and resolved in order for the future to unfold as other than tragedy, I think.Will Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454533450309633627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-54363431782980433532009-10-26T21:11:27.402-04:002009-10-26T21:11:27.402-04:00Hello, a very well written presentation of a compl...Hello, a very well written presentation of a complex topic. Your use of the word "immortality" does pose a problem however, though I believe I understand your intent well enough.<br /><br />To be immortal means one is unkillable - that one cannot die (thus, vampires of legend aren't actually immortals, they are instead ageless - or possibly only unageing). Since I do not read you as making that specific argument (transitioning to a condition of being unkillable), I wish you would select a different word in future. Since your essays seem to be deliberate arguments explaining many of the topics often included in the general catagory of "singularity" or "futurism" it seems contrary to your intent to further obscure the issues involved with such a misleading word choice.<br /><br />Perhaps this issue of misleading expectations might make for a future essay?<br /><br />Separate to all of foregoing, I think your logical progression (in the associative law of mathematics bit) is flawed. If a=b and b=c, then indeed a=c; however, that does not mean that a <i>is</i> c, which is what you seem to assert in the latter portion of that same paragraph. A clone (mind or otherwise) is an exact copy of the original <i>at the time the copying action occured</i>, to as exact a standard as technology permits, all else being in agreement. Not only should it not go without saying, but one of the pressing ethical questions yet to be adequately answered in any discussion of this topic to date involves the dichotomy created by the existence of a clone; to wit, which copy is the "real" you? Subsequent to that, which copy has what rights to "your" property (real and intellectual - who's memories are they really?) and identity (which is/will be related to whom) into the future? While I'm sure none of these are new concepts for you, your essay doesn't even acknowledge them even to the extent of defering them to a later time. So I put you directly to the question; at what point following the creation of a "mindclone" do you envision killing the original (and now fully independent entity from the newly differentiated clone) person? Your essay seems to assume serial existences for each version of one long-lived individual person, so some mechanism must be applied to "delete" the previous version. My own viewpoint is that some variation of digitization of a personality must intercede between the physical existence of a biologic clone (however upgraded each rendition might be compared to it's predeceasor) to avoid much of the ethical quandry, but I recognise how limiting that potential option is on it's own merits. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the matter.Will Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454533450309633627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-88993230114080389932009-10-26T20:16:20.957-04:002009-10-26T20:16:20.957-04:00Yes, you definitely understand the vector of our e...Yes, you definitely understand the vector of our evolution, John!Martine Rothblatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10494738113010250427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454474035487094108.post-55179236214457430452009-10-24T01:09:02.364-04:002009-10-24T01:09:02.364-04:00Thanks, Martine for an engaging post. I think thi...Thanks, Martine for an engaging post. I think this will help shift our thinking from a static view of ourselves to a more transient, fluid concept of our personalities. I believe your analogy of the changing physical body applies to the mind as well, being on a continuum, as it seems everything is turning out to be. As we gain more knowledge about ourselves and the Universe, there will be an increasing shift in our understanding from the narrow to the broad view, from fixed definitions to one of variables on a spectrum, whether it is sound, electromagnetic waves, sexuality, politics, or energy fields yet to be discovered. Our minds are no different. This seems to be a natural progression of evolution, since at first our minds can more easily make sense of simple explanations with defined borders rather than seeing something as part of a larger whole. An analogy in mathematics is when a 3-D sphere intersects a 2-D plane. To the residents who live on 2-D world, they don’t see the sphere, but rather a circle becoming larger, then smaller, then disappearing, having really no idea what is happening. With wisdom will come perspective. Without this vision, one cannot appreciate the complexities, richness and wonder of life.<br /><br />-John DeCiccoJDinVermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18441947854680067645noreply@blogger.com